In another remark on behalf of modesty, Penrose addresses whether he is a materialist by disposition. Justin Brierley, the host, asks, "Are you always searching for a materialistic explanation?" Penrose avers, "I don't like the word materialistic, because it suggests that we know what matter is. And matter itself, if you know about physics, then matter already becomes something very strange and mysterious. It's not as though this is eliminating a problem, to say: 'Okay, we're just made of matter.' To a physicist, that's hardly any kind of a solution. Because, the more we know about matter, the more obscure and dependent on mathematics it becomes. There is a sort of circularity to this, because in order to have access to mathematics at all we need to use our conscious understanding."

William Lane Craig and Greg Koukl reflect on The Grand Design in the September 20th broadcast of Stand To Reason